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NEILFarmer
Posted 6/2/ 21:35 (#)
Subject: Row Crop bean head
Morris, ILGiving this strip cropping a try this year. Would really like to find a 653A (JD 6 row crop bean head ) to make harvesting the soybeans little easier. This will be going on our . Talked to few guys and they all say a row crop head is the way to go, only problem i don't know a thing about them. I will be going to look at buying one and i'd like to know little bit how they work and what i need to look at for wear? I have 60 acres to do with it, but at this point i'm thinking more in the future. I'd like something that will do good clean job, really like to push it up to 5mph and keep combine full if possible. What wears out on them and what to look for? Not a lot of them left in Northern Illinois. If i can't find one i'll be running 9 down and 3 back with our 922 which will work, not ideal. Thanks in advance.
Edited by NEILFarmer 6/2/ 21:37
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nw kansasAny where there is a moving part look for wear, chains, knives, sprockets, bearings, shaft that star knife is on. I would get a six row flex head before a row head.
Central Mo
Nevada, IowaI was a die hard row crop head man for years. Finally gave up on it about ten years ago, I had the old 50 series and not the 50A series. There is too much difference between them for me to give much advice but I will say they are similar enough in function to relate. Maintenance is the key, knife sheer and gathering belt tension is essential. When properly tuned, nothing will cut beans quite like it but I don't miss the daily maintenance and annual repair expense. I will likely never go back and I would look for a good 915 before going back. You should be able to find one as reasonable as a 653a or cheaper and you'll like it better due to familiarity and ease of upkeep. Deere hasn't had a row head for a long time now and rebuilding a worn one could be a real money pit. Just my opinion so you know what it is worth, lol.
S.E. South DakotaGreat head in the day but flex heads have came long way. Row crop heads are high dollar machine to keep running. You also have to remeber they are getting old.
ECKSBe aware that all used ones are in need of a total rebuild. Be wary of businesses that rebuild them. Before the sugarcane aphid arrived, I purchased a row head for $ and put $5K and an ungodly number of hrs into a total rebuild. Replaced 89 bearings if memory serves. Ck the row drive gears for wear, they will tell you a lot.
I have yet to use mine until they find a good solution to the aphid. It's a backup for the flex head. Might sell it, but it wouldn't be cheap.
Morris, ILDave, you mention daily maintenance is key and that you don't miss it. What exactly are the daily adjustment you speak of? You also annual repair expense, what pieces are you talking. I found couple of pictures now of the underside and such. Looks like lot of gears and open bearings. Shoup looks to have lot of parts, not cheap ones.
Problem with platform head is the real, i've been told it causes problems with the corn row right next to it. And any sort of down or leaning corn is major problem. If i can't find one i like i'll have to make 922 work. Thanks again Dave.
Edited by NEILFarmer 6/2/ 22:17
Central Iowa
Edited by Cardinal_Farms 6/2/ 22:37
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-10-26 12.40.04.jpg (154KB - 144 downloads)
-10-26 13.31.28.jpg (142KB - 155 downloads)
Nevada, IowaBelt adjustment was a real pain on the 653, We did some mods to help but it was still a pain. I think the A series was better and there were some after market spring tighteners that helped. I would certainly look into those if going that route. Knife sheer could be a daily thing too. It wasn't huge but I spent a lot more time in the morning on a 653 than I have my worst morning on a 925. We bought that 653 in and I think I replaced about everything there was to replace by the time I gave up on it. They are very expensive to rebuild even with non Deere parts. Also, if you have ANY stones, you will want rock guards and you will stop more for rocks than you currently do with a flex head. A reverser would be imperative. I can see the reel being a beast next to the corn row so often but I wouldn't relish doing the row crop head again. Hope I am not bumming you out too much and I was about the last to quit in this area.
Nevada, IowaI will say in lodged or hail damaged beans, nothing would compare. I kept the 653 around for a number of years after we quit using it just for a plan B but we never hooked it up again. We don't seem to have lodging issues like we had 20 years ago either.
S.E. South DakotaWhats the purpose of strip cropping?
NW KS/ SC IDContact Mikes Equipment http://www.mikesequipment.com/ they have a tensioner setup for the no A series that makes them much nicer to run.
also, buy one bearing from Deere, and take it down to a good local bearing shop that can find an equivalent. On ours, IIRC the Deere bearing was 60 bucks, and the bearing house was 20. JD bearing was import, so was the bearing house one. This is on the hex inner race bearing, of which there will be plenty of on that header. : )
Check the end sheet where it welds to the main frame. If guys got rough with one, it will break that end plate loose from the frame.
There are a few rebuilding outfits, one guy locally makes 12 row frame kits so you can either DIY, or you can buy a head ready to go as well.
For the sunflower and milo guys, I hear there is a welding shop down Dodge City or Cimmaron KS area that engineered a new snoot that is longer and gets under crop better.
They do take some maintenance, but there is definitely applications for the ol row head to this day. : )
Fairbury, NE (Southeast)Have a 653a that would be very servicable. in profile. As said, they are the real deal for getting all the pods. Still some guys west of here on ridges that use 8 rows.
Used to drive over 6 mph with an L3 and row crop head.
The Green Hills of MissouriHad a 454 on a then a and loved it. Could combine more acres per day than a 820 platform on same machines.
Drive as fast as you can stay on the row. With today's GPS RTK that would be the way to combine beans with low stress and lots of acres and do a better job with harvest losses! Quit using mine when I went and 930.
At the time I had put on all the after market changes to upgrade it like a 454A. Biggest issue was the foxtail a round the field edges and any skips in the field. If the stacionary knife and rotary weren't sent correctly or it was a little damp the foxtail would wrap around the lower idler sprocket and set off slip clutch so get out the pocket knife and screw driver and start digging.
I even did some down corn with mine one year. Was a slow go with the but did save many bushels of corn.
If I was to go back to using one I would buy two and have a parts machine. But I wouldn't buy one sight unseen!! Good luck.
So. ILParts were hard to come by when we had a 853a, most dealers don't stock them so make sure you have extras on hand. I remember the shaft that holds the knife stripping the threads a couple times so have that part on hand. The chains we had some kind of aftermarket love joy tensioners on them to take up the slack and they worked great.
Central Illinois
There is a pair of bevel gears for each gathering belt.
One pair on each row also drives the chain for the knives on that row. Those are the ones that wear the worst and need to be in good shape to do a goood job cutting at speed.
Also the "ledger" plate needs to be sharp to help the knives cut cleanly.
SE NebraskaI have a 653A for sale. is good
southern Jasper County,InI have used a rowcrop head for 20plus years and have a 653a that I bought for $750 you can have that will work for 60acres to try out.The bevel gears and the knife and shear plate are the main things you need to check for good operation.If you want to look at it me and I will give you directions. I am in NW In.
ECMOCheck with JO Harris. http://www.joharrissales.com/ They used to deal in them and were making 12 rows for milo and sunflowers out west.We run them for milo but I don't know why anyone would consider them anymore for beans. If they are really worn out it will be in the neighborhood of $ per row to rebuild. Most of what everyone posted needs looked at. Also the floor, and the bottom of the row unit where the stalks run up. We have laid new metal in all of ours. As I said, we use for milo. A few years ago, when the big combine was going to be in the shop for week I tried the row head on our short beans and gave it up after 2 rounds and bought a 925 flex. The 600 flex heads are much better even than the 900's, but will not work in your situation.
Edited by bkandra 6/3/ 06:24
S.E. IowaI know when it comes time to repair them it is cashy. That being said I am not sure on a per hour used they are that bad. I had one on a , if I could have went faster it would have worked. What I am saying if you can run it at its capacity and not the combines it may be pretty cheap to operate. Second gear all the way ahead all day.
Posted 6/3/ 10:55 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean headHi Tye. We had a 454A when we did ridge till,ran it on . They feed nice and even ,seem to just suck the beans in, no reel. At the time a dealer told me that they had combines running out of power, they will cut as fast as you can keep it on row. We did about 200 acres a year till we went to drilled beans, now 15 inch rows. There are more parts but we never had much trouble. Sometimes I wonder if 15 inch rows would yield any better than 30 inch rows harvested with a row head. Lots of good info in all the replies. If you get one I think you will use it on all bean acres, I think you'll like it.AVP_Matt
Posted 6/3/ 13:11 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
Hennepin, ILTy, shoot me an . I might know of a 653A near me that I think would be in good shape. Worst case it'll be usable for 60 acres for sure. Guy traded a off on a and I'm sure didn't convert it over. If you're still looking I can find out if he still has it.45Deere
Posted 6/3/ 13:27 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
St. Joseph, Champaign County, ILA 600 series can be made to work on a 9X00 series combine. Won't just bolt on, for sure, but can work.farmboy
Posted 6/3/ 15:22 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean headThose work great those were the ones that my dad had on the last head we had and loved them.NEILFarmer
Posted 6/3/ 18:58 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
Morris, ILThanks everyone, everything will be considered. For now i'm going to try finding something more local at least for now.GM Guy
Posted 6/4/ 20:37 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
NW KS/ SC IDsilly question, but did you have the row unit unlocked so each independent row unit could float up and down?jackandbecky
Posted 7/25/ 14:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
Posted 6/2/ 21:35 (#)
Subject: Row Crop bean head
Morris, ILGiving this strip cropping a try this year. Would really like to find a 653A (JD 6 row crop bean head ) to make harvesting the soybeans little easier. This will be going on our . Talked to few guys and they all say a row crop head is the way to go, only problem i don't know a thing about them. I will be going to look at buying one and i'd like to know little bit how they work and what i need to look at for wear? I have 60 acres to do with it, but at this point i'm thinking more in the future. I'd like something that will do good clean job, really like to push it up to 5mph and keep combine full if possible. What wears out on them and what to look for? Not a lot of them left in Northern Illinois. If i can't find one i'll be running 9 down and 3 back with our 922 which will work, not ideal. Thanks in advance.
Edited by NEILFarmer 6/2/ 21:37
(IMG_.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
IMG_.jpg (126KB - 213 downloads)
nw kansasAny where there is a moving part look for wear, chains, knives, sprockets, bearings, shaft that star knife is on. I would get a six row flex head before a row head.
Central Mo
With a row 6 row head on a you should be able to drive as fast as you can keep it on the row.
Look at the chains of course, look at the knives, if they are worn it will look like a notch in the knife. 653a will have a better chain adjuster on it, 653 are manual, but if you are only doing 60 acres you will be fine. Look at the belts to see they are timed right, look at the adjustment left on the belt (chains ). Kind of a pia to take a link out.
If you don't have good knives fox tail can be tough, but with roundup thats not really a problem anymore. Happy hunting.
Nevada, IowaI was a die hard row crop head man for years. Finally gave up on it about ten years ago, I had the old 50 series and not the 50A series. There is too much difference between them for me to give much advice but I will say they are similar enough in function to relate. Maintenance is the key, knife sheer and gathering belt tension is essential. When properly tuned, nothing will cut beans quite like it but I don't miss the daily maintenance and annual repair expense. I will likely never go back and I would look for a good 915 before going back. You should be able to find one as reasonable as a 653a or cheaper and you'll like it better due to familiarity and ease of upkeep. Deere hasn't had a row head for a long time now and rebuilding a worn one could be a real money pit. Just my opinion so you know what it is worth, lol.
S.E. South DakotaGreat head in the day but flex heads have came long way. Row crop heads are high dollar machine to keep running. You also have to remeber they are getting old.
ECKSBe aware that all used ones are in need of a total rebuild. Be wary of businesses that rebuild them. Before the sugarcane aphid arrived, I purchased a row head for $ and put $5K and an ungodly number of hrs into a total rebuild. Replaced 89 bearings if memory serves. Ck the row drive gears for wear, they will tell you a lot.
I have yet to use mine until they find a good solution to the aphid. It's a backup for the flex head. Might sell it, but it wouldn't be cheap.
Morris, ILDave, you mention daily maintenance is key and that you don't miss it. What exactly are the daily adjustment you speak of? You also annual repair expense, what pieces are you talking. I found couple of pictures now of the underside and such. Looks like lot of gears and open bearings. Shoup looks to have lot of parts, not cheap ones.
Problem with platform head is the real, i've been told it causes problems with the corn row right next to it. And any sort of down or leaning corn is major problem. If i can't find one i like i'll have to make 922 work. Thanks again Dave.
Edited by NEILFarmer 6/2/ 22:17
Central Iowa
They work great for strip cropping. I plant 12-12 corn/soybean strips. The snouts will slip under leaning cornstaIks without grabbing them and the head is nearly rock proof. My 653A was rebuilt a number of years ago and I don't regret it at all. I inspect the head pre-season every year and once that is done there is very little daily maintenance.
I also have an IH 820 15' flex head that I use for opening up fields and other situations. I can use it as a backup in the strips if the 653A goes down but that rarely ever happens.
Goto Xinwanda to know more.
Edited by Cardinal_Farms 6/2/ 22:37
(-10-26 12.40.04.jpg)
(-10-26 13.31.28.jpg)
Attachments
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-10-26 12.40.04.jpg (154KB - 144 downloads)
-10-26 13.31.28.jpg (142KB - 155 downloads)
Nevada, IowaBelt adjustment was a real pain on the 653, We did some mods to help but it was still a pain. I think the A series was better and there were some after market spring tighteners that helped. I would certainly look into those if going that route. Knife sheer could be a daily thing too. It wasn't huge but I spent a lot more time in the morning on a 653 than I have my worst morning on a 925. We bought that 653 in and I think I replaced about everything there was to replace by the time I gave up on it. They are very expensive to rebuild even with non Deere parts. Also, if you have ANY stones, you will want rock guards and you will stop more for rocks than you currently do with a flex head. A reverser would be imperative. I can see the reel being a beast next to the corn row so often but I wouldn't relish doing the row crop head again. Hope I am not bumming you out too much and I was about the last to quit in this area.
Nevada, IowaI will say in lodged or hail damaged beans, nothing would compare. I kept the 653 around for a number of years after we quit using it just for a plan B but we never hooked it up again. We don't seem to have lodging issues like we had 20 years ago either.
S.E. South DakotaWhats the purpose of strip cropping?
NW KS/ SC IDContact Mikes Equipment http://www.mikesequipment.com/ they have a tensioner setup for the no A series that makes them much nicer to run.
also, buy one bearing from Deere, and take it down to a good local bearing shop that can find an equivalent. On ours, IIRC the Deere bearing was 60 bucks, and the bearing house was 20. JD bearing was import, so was the bearing house one. This is on the hex inner race bearing, of which there will be plenty of on that header. : )
Check the end sheet where it welds to the main frame. If guys got rough with one, it will break that end plate loose from the frame.
There are a few rebuilding outfits, one guy locally makes 12 row frame kits so you can either DIY, or you can buy a head ready to go as well.
For the sunflower and milo guys, I hear there is a welding shop down Dodge City or Cimmaron KS area that engineered a new snoot that is longer and gets under crop better.
They do take some maintenance, but there is definitely applications for the ol row head to this day. : )
Fairbury, NE (Southeast)Have a 653a that would be very servicable. in profile. As said, they are the real deal for getting all the pods. Still some guys west of here on ridges that use 8 rows.
Used to drive over 6 mph with an L3 and row crop head.
The Green Hills of MissouriHad a 454 on a then a and loved it. Could combine more acres per day than a 820 platform on same machines.
Drive as fast as you can stay on the row. With today's GPS RTK that would be the way to combine beans with low stress and lots of acres and do a better job with harvest losses! Quit using mine when I went and 930.
At the time I had put on all the after market changes to upgrade it like a 454A. Biggest issue was the foxtail a round the field edges and any skips in the field. If the stacionary knife and rotary weren't sent correctly or it was a little damp the foxtail would wrap around the lower idler sprocket and set off slip clutch so get out the pocket knife and screw driver and start digging.
I even did some down corn with mine one year. Was a slow go with the but did save many bushels of corn.
If I was to go back to using one I would buy two and have a parts machine. But I wouldn't buy one sight unseen!! Good luck.
So. ILParts were hard to come by when we had a 853a, most dealers don't stock them so make sure you have extras on hand. I remember the shaft that holds the knife stripping the threads a couple times so have that part on hand. The chains we had some kind of aftermarket love joy tensioners on them to take up the slack and they worked great.
Central Illinois
There is a pair of bevel gears for each gathering belt.
One pair on each row also drives the chain for the knives on that row. Those are the ones that wear the worst and need to be in good shape to do a goood job cutting at speed.
Also the "ledger" plate needs to be sharp to help the knives cut cleanly.
SE NebraskaI have a 653A for sale. is good
southern Jasper County,InI have used a rowcrop head for 20plus years and have a 653a that I bought for $750 you can have that will work for 60acres to try out.The bevel gears and the knife and shear plate are the main things you need to check for good operation.If you want to look at it me and I will give you directions. I am in NW In.
ECMOCheck with JO Harris. http://www.joharrissales.com/ They used to deal in them and were making 12 rows for milo and sunflowers out west.We run them for milo but I don't know why anyone would consider them anymore for beans. If they are really worn out it will be in the neighborhood of $ per row to rebuild. Most of what everyone posted needs looked at. Also the floor, and the bottom of the row unit where the stalks run up. We have laid new metal in all of ours. As I said, we use for milo. A few years ago, when the big combine was going to be in the shop for week I tried the row head on our short beans and gave it up after 2 rounds and bought a 925 flex. The 600 flex heads are much better even than the 900's, but will not work in your situation.
Edited by bkandra 6/3/ 06:24
S.E. IowaI know when it comes time to repair them it is cashy. That being said I am not sure on a per hour used they are that bad. I had one on a , if I could have went faster it would have worked. What I am saying if you can run it at its capacity and not the combines it may be pretty cheap to operate. Second gear all the way ahead all day.
Posted 6/3/ 10:55 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean headHi Tye. We had a 454A when we did ridge till,ran it on . They feed nice and even ,seem to just suck the beans in, no reel. At the time a dealer told me that they had combines running out of power, they will cut as fast as you can keep it on row. We did about 200 acres a year till we went to drilled beans, now 15 inch rows. There are more parts but we never had much trouble. Sometimes I wonder if 15 inch rows would yield any better than 30 inch rows harvested with a row head. Lots of good info in all the replies. If you get one I think you will use it on all bean acres, I think you'll like it.AVP_Matt
Posted 6/3/ 13:11 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
Hennepin, ILTy, shoot me an . I might know of a 653A near me that I think would be in good shape. Worst case it'll be usable for 60 acres for sure. Guy traded a off on a and I'm sure didn't convert it over. If you're still looking I can find out if he still has it.45Deere
Posted 6/3/ 13:27 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
St. Joseph, Champaign County, ILA 600 series can be made to work on a 9X00 series combine. Won't just bolt on, for sure, but can work.farmboy
Posted 6/3/ 15:22 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean headThose work great those were the ones that my dad had on the last head we had and loved them.NEILFarmer
Posted 6/3/ 18:58 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
Morris, ILThanks everyone, everything will be considered. For now i'm going to try finding something more local at least for now.GM Guy
Posted 6/4/ 20:37 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
NW KS/ SC IDsilly question, but did you have the row unit unlocked so each independent row unit could float up and down?jackandbecky
Posted 7/25/ 14:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Row Crop bean head
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