Samsung Feeder Calibration Machine - ai-part

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dimbmw

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Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« on: May 30, , 08:23:43 pm » Hi
I am shopping for a PnP machine and I've bumped into Samsung Sm482 Plus.
I am having troubles understanding what is going on about this machine.
Is it made in China for Samsung by some other company Hanwha?
So is it still Samsung?
What about the quality and specifications of this machine, is it worth considering? Is it reliable? How about it's software, is it usable at all?
Do I understand it  right that price wise it is one of the most attractive machines on the market these days?
I haven't found any comprehensive reviews of this machine.
Hopefully someone knows this machine and can share some thoughts?
Thanks!
Dmitry

SMTech

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #1 on: May 30, , 09:41:45 pm » No reviews but its a very popular machine.

Samsungs SMT division was called Samsung Techwin and it was spun of as a separate company which was then bought by Hanwha and has since then been spun off again as a standalone SMT machine company. I think they are still made in Korea, but Hanwha has manufacturing in other countries including China so could be wrong.

As you can see here https://www.hanwhaprecisionmachinery.com/introduction/int_history_.asp the SM482 was launched in while it would still have had Samsung written on it while the current model is an SM482plus.

Elite7 sell them in the UK and have a few videos on Youtube including some software/operation, I fully intend to have them on our shortlist next time we are looking as they hav esome interesting features like feeders that handle short tape and a tray loader that feeds from the end so it doesn't use any feeder slots. As I mentioned in another thread in the UK (only) you can currently get one on special offer and the price is very good. The following users thanked this post: dimbmw

dimbmw

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #2 on: May 31, , 05:07:23 am »

No reviews but its a very popular machine.

Samsungs SMT division was called Samsung Techwin and it was spun of as a separate company which was then bought by Hanwha and has since then been spun off again as a standalone SMT machine company. I think they are still made in Korea, but Hanwha has manufacturing in other countries including China so could be wrong.

As you can see here https://www.hanwhaprecisionmachinery.com/introduction/int_history_.asp the SM482 was launched in while it would still have had Samsung written on it while the current model is an SM482plus.

Elite7 sell them in the UK and have a few videos on Youtube including some software/operation, I fully intend to have them on our shortlist next time we are looking as they hav esome interesting features like feeders that handle short tape and a tray loader that feeds from the end so it doesn't use any feeder slots. As I mentioned in another thread in the UK (only) you can currently get one on special offer and the price is very good.

Thanks! I will look for these videos. Is the special offer in the UK better than the price  on alibaba (they advertise it at $75K and up).

SMTech

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #3 on: May 31, , 05:32:28 pm » By the time you factor in shipping, handling, installation, different import duties and the fact that once you order a machine and feeders as a bundle the "list prices" for the individual parts often become meaningless... I think you could argue the effective price for the robot bit is under $75k  but who can really say. Depending what happens to the global economy we could see more deals like this from other suppliers. The following users thanked this post: dimbmw

HHaase

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #4 on: June 25, , 04:23:41 pm » We have a 482 and a 481 at work,  along with three Fuji lines.  The Samsung/Hanwa line has a lot of advantages we find in ease of programming and ease of use.  I don't run them myself, as I'm the "thru hole guy", but the operators and engineers are typically very happy with them.  The operators particularly love the feeders, compared to Fuji.  Just a very user friendly system all around.

I would however say that the logistics of this type of machine needs to be looked into before making the decision.   You need to make sure you have the electrical and compressed air capacity to run these, and typically the server and software side can get complex, particularly if you have multiple machines or have to tie into an inventory system.  That and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure you're getting clarity on feeder numbers and prices. At over $1k each feeders ad up very quickly.    Nozzles are also more expensive at this level of machine too, don't be surprised to see them at a couple hundred dollars EACH. 

I'd also recommend that you get with the regional sales rep, and push them hard on price.  You'd be surprised how deep they'll discount machine installations in order to make a sale.    The following users thanked this post: Reckless

glenenglish

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #5 on: February 24, , 04:02:36 am » I just bought one
Got it running with the training people the past few days

PLUSES :

Capability is good, very flexible, can be programmed pretty much to do anything in any order..
Very high build quality. nothing chinese, either in it that I can find !
self calibration and self checks work smoothly.
great  vision system ,  (I got the 6x16mm FOV  flying plus 45mm FOV fixed)
great lighting systems gives the vision system good performance capability.
Can put trays anywhere.  feeders well priced (I got electric 8mm, and air 12,16,24)
Fast ( of course, they all are)
120 feeders PLUS trays. - can build a whole product on single machine.
Factory very responsive to questions.  Good local agent and support
Good technical documentation- all technical data, schematics, plans, wiring , spares etc all
very good technical manual.

MINUSES

Software, while fully featured- fantastic number of features and options
But - design  is from the s design. database ! (MDB!) WTF !?
Stuff has been added in  - Samsung known for listening to customers and adding features.
you can tell as customer requirements got added, barnacles grew
For a windows program it is full of surprises.
The software is VERY capable can do ANYTHING is FULLY FEATURED
BUT BUT -the software  is a mess and is full of dependencies strange
No logic sequence to anything.
BUT consistant behaviour. - That is,  if you know it, it is  fine.
They need to RIP UP the software and rewrite the interface
- the underlying engine and the vision system is very good
The parts library system is maddening and like from the 80s. No import export of parts libraries !
Manual is complex- it is a complex system and many apsects would be written better, or have webinars- IE communicationn of ideas problem.

Previous: Yamaha YVL88ii, chinese machines, also wrote own PnP software based on Yamaha.
Operation manuals on the Yamaha are superb, This one needs work.

Early days yet. Options for me were  two x  2nd hand yamaha  (YS12F etc) or this new machine and a truckload of new feeders

« Last Edit: February 24, , 04:14:09 am by glenenglish »

uzbek

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #6 on: February 24, , 11:25:50 am » @glenenglish what was the price for the machine and feeders?

glenenglish

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #7 on: February 24, , 11:26:54 pm » HI,
I cannot discuss commercial aspects.

48X24X48X

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #8 on: February 25, , 04:24:20 am »

I just bought one
Got it running with the training people the past few days

PLUSES :

Capability is good, very flexible, can be programmed pretty much to do anything in any order..
Very high build quality. nothing chinese, either in it that I can find !
self calibration and self checks work smoothly.
great  vision system ,  (I got the 6x16mm FOV  flying plus 45mm FOV fixed)
great lighting systems gives the vision system good performance capability.
Can put trays anywhere.  feeders well priced (I got electric 8mm, and air 12,16,24)
Fast ( of course, they all are)
120 feeders PLUS trays. - can build a whole product on single machine.
Factory very responsive to questions.  Good local agent and support
Good technical documentation- all technical data, schematics, plans, wiring , spares etc all
very good technical manual.

MINUSES

Software, while fully featured- fantastic number of features and options
But - design  is from the s design. database ! (MDB!) WTF !?
Stuff has been added in  - Samsung known for listening to customers and adding features.
you can tell as customer requirements got added, barnacles grew
For a windows program it is full of surprises.
The software is VERY capable can do ANYTHING is FULLY FEATURED
BUT BUT -the software  is a mess and is full of dependencies strange
No logic sequence to anything.
BUT consistant behaviour. - That is,  if you know it, it is  fine.
They need to RIP UP the software and rewrite the interface
- the underlying engine and the vision system is very good
The parts library system is maddening and like from the 80s. No import export of parts libraries !
Manual is complex- it is a complex system and many apsects would be written better, or have webinars- IE communicationn of ideas problem.

Previous: Yamaha YVL88ii, chinese machines, also wrote own PnP software based on Yamaha.
Operation manuals on the Yamaha are superb, This one needs work.

Early days yet. Options for me were  two x  2nd hand yamaha  (YS12F etc) or this new machine and a truckload of new feeders

Any reason on what this new puppy can do over the 3x of the Kayo A4?

glenenglish

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #9 on: July 31, , 04:07:50 am » So 6 months !

This machine is fantastic. Some of the software is a bit non intuitive , it isnt super modern windows app, but everything does work.
and it is very well featured.
The new parts editor and auto teaching facilities this machine is magnificent. For that pesky wierdo switcher footprints or connectors,  Just click "auto" and it sorts it out 

I do not swear or curse it very often, now that I know how to use it.

Highly recommended !
I made a single one tray changer that pokes in the side of the machine- the machine does NOT lose any feeder positions with the tray
You can populate it will all combinations of parts- I cut my custom acrylic trays for small runs and it can deal with 20 different parts in a tray, very flexible handling of mixed  trays.
I bought more feeders- now it is full - x120...., AND I bought  used AUTO  TRAY CHANGER, 20 trays.....
There was a bug in the XML import/export that I use to sync my database and they fixed that inside two days.

-glen



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pan

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #10 on: August 05, , 02:56:36 pm » Thanks for your post

I am expecting a new SM482+ arriving some time next week. Now I can't wait to put it to work

/PAN

glenenglish

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #11 on: November 23, , 10:51:42 pm » 10 months in, I am finally hitting my stride with  the SM482. Fantastic. like all these machines- bespoke problems. I can just walk up to it and run a board with confidence.

Now, the machine is the easy bit. like all things mechanically, things not moving is a problem- in this case, most problems come from cover tapes getting stuck in some form or another, more likely with plastic embossed just sittingn in a feed unused.
Yes, I have confidence and no concern jobbing up the SM482 for a run.  oh and other gems like the chip capacitors not being flush with the top of the tape which means different pickup time and speed requirements to pull it out of the tape pocket- which is difficult if the nozzle is larger than the pocket.... and super sticky cover tapes... static.... oh fun and games.  but once the first board is rolling...

Now, the prime difficulty is getting a good stencil print. I can do it reliably, but there are many items I have to watch and be aware of and check.  by good print I mean landing paste on pads within 0.05mm  , perhaps 0.1mm worst case (any more than that and a wipe is triggered) .

glenenglish

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #12 on: March 11, , 12:45:17 am » @PAN - How did you go with your SM482+ ?

Best money I EVER spent.  Love it.

My biggest trouble still is reliable fine pitch stenciling. Seems there is very much a aperture size limit on JLCPCB/PCBWAY stencils  before paste release becomes an issue and you have to spend decent money on a good stencil.

My production is always short so not a real big deal to wipe clean  about 1 in 5 if the application of paste is less than perfect. That's the thing- NEVER hesitate to put a board aside , clean and paste it again.
« Last Edit: March 11, , 12:47:04 am by glenenglish »

pan

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #13 on: March 12, , 10:51:03 pm » @glenenglish

My sm482+ is working very well. I am super happy, and just love it. I have not experienced any problems yet. The support is also very good. Don't need much of that anymore, but it is good to know that if I get into some trouble the help is only a short message away.

With regards to stencils I have mainly bought them from Alpha, and have not had any problems with paste release.

/pan

SeanMollet

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #14 on: April 26, , 12:12:14 pm » I haven't cut the PO for mine yet, but I'm just about there. Can't wait to get started!

ass20

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #15 on: August 27, , 05:17:04 pm » hi
what is smartCM passwords?

please help « Last Edit: August 27, , 09:32:37 pm by ass20 »

MR

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Re: Samsung/Hanwha Sm482 Plus any reviews?

« Reply #16 on: August 28, , 05:07:39 am » @glenenglish

can you upload some good pictures of the camera integration? Head camera and stationary cameras?
I'm especially interested in the illumination.